Curse

Dr Strangelove · Sep 02, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

So I've been playing around with pretty much the same build for a while now in GWEN, and I've pretty much hit the wall on how much I can refine it. So... tear this to pieces and make it better

.

[skill]spirit rift[/skill][skill]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]weapon of shadow[/skill][skill]recovery[/skill][skill]recuperation[/skill][skill]offering of spirit[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]

I'm usually running with Koss as triple chop warrior and Melonni as reaper's sweep dervish, so the splinter weapon is exclusively for them.

Variants:
-Swap weapon of shadow for warmongers weapon if interrupts are a must. I usually bring along the interrupt henchie or a BHA ranger, so this is often overkill.
-Swap weapon of shadow for pure was li ming, and recovery for [skill]life[/skill], giving more "on demand" condition removal

Issues:
-Weapon of shadow is kinda weak for melee shutdown, but I still need some area of effect physical shutdown spell. The only other options I see are [skill]weapon of warding[/skill] and [skill]blind was mingson[/skill], neither of which are all that attractive.
-Spirit rift is great damage - when it hits. Everything dies so fast that it usually ends up going off and hitting nothing. Not sure what else to put here, though.
-No super-fun PvE only skills

Stormlord Alex · Sep 02, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I'm usually running with Koss as triple chop warrior and Melonni as reaper's sweep dervish, so the splinter weapon is exclusively for them.

But... splinter wanding Al Capwns! ...

Seriously? Awesome stuff, I'd probably do something similar if I had a PvE Rt... Which I don't

frojack · Sep 02, 2007, 09:35 PM // 21:35

I'd ditch Recovery for the new item spell if you want mass condition handling. Also as much as I like Recuperation, the energy cost makes it annoying to use a lot without elite energy (or GoLE), and that +3 really isn't going to save anyone. It's especially redundant with LoD knocking around. If you don't need elite energy, you can use some of the more 'fun' elites.

Likes it. I've been using something similar for a while now (got hit a bit thanks to the 2 cast Spirit Rift but hey...). Farmed the norn rit armour with it also.

[skill]Weapon of Remedy[/skill][skill]Spirit Rift[/skill][skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill][skill]Nightmare Weapon[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Bloodsong[/skill][skill]Life[/skill][skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill]

Channeling 12+1+2
Restoration 12+2
rest in Spawning (with +1)

+5 30hp spear, or Channeling Wand 20, +5 on switch with a +30, +5 al focus.

Love how the New Ancestor's works. The game treats it as 'anonymous' damage, so no Reversal of Damage in my face thank you very much (though I do miss seeing the yellow). The slight delay is also very nice to spike with Spirit Rift.
It's pretty management heavy, but the that's like all rit builds I guess. Pretty much the problem with the class in pvp for the most part (too many initial hoops for the basics, making over-arching tactics, and tactical change harder to employ).

The one thing I've really noticed about Gwen (and high-end pve in general) is that ar considerate damage is a joke. Even hitting mob spirits and doing low damage is just insulting. Never mind the fire resistant and burn proof Destroyers (love you Anet for this btw

).

Dr Strangelove · Sep 03, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

I've toyed around with other elites than offering of spirit, but to be honest, rit elites kinda suck. WoR is a nice skill, but it has synergy issues with the other weapons up there. Once that and spirit light weapon is out, you're pretty much stuck with offering, since everything else is shit. Still, might be worth a shot.

As for recovery vs pure was li ming, I'm kinda torn on it. The mass condition removal really is sexy, but the recharge is a pain. With offering of spirit recovery probably is better just for the spirit anchor, but the effect on pure is just so sexy when it goes down. *poof*, everyone's clean. I waffle between them tbh.

New ancestor's is sex. Spamming it on a dervish with high mysticism is even sexier. It's nice to see the yellow, but it's just so ridiculously good now that I couldn't ever part with it. I will never, ever take this or splinter weapon off my bar. They're just too good.

I'm really, really unsure on spirit rift. Like you said, in GWEN it just doesn't do that much through armor, and thanks to splinter mobs die really quickly anyway. Definitely doesn't feel worth the 10e and a slot, but not much else fits there well.

Looking at your bar, I don't really see the point of those spirits, especially when GoLE could fit there too.

I like nightmare weapon, but it's never really been quite the "money" spell I'd like it to be.

How about this?

[skill]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]spirit rift[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]nightmare weapon[/skill][skill]weapon of remedy[/skill][skill]protective was kaolai[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]

Skills are a little out of order, general idea is just putting all the really, really good rit skills on one bar, with the exception of warmonger's weapon since you can only have so many weapon spells.

Shadowmere · Sep 03, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

if you've got any of the Kurzick/Luxon titles seriously consider going secondary ranger; triple shot + nightmare weapon = a very potent life stealing spike.

frojack · Sep 03, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I've toyed around with other elites than offering of spirit, but to be honest, rit elites kinda suck. WoR is a nice skill, but it has synergy issues with the other weapons up there. Once that and spirit light weapon is out, you're pretty much stuck with offering, since everything else is shit. Still, might be worth a shot.

As for recovery vs pure was li ming, I'm kinda torn on it. The mass condition removal really is sexy, but the recharge is a pain. With offering of spirit recovery probably is better just for the spirit anchor, but the effect on pure is just so sexy when it goes down. *poof*, everyone's clean. I waffle between them tbh.

New ancestor's is sex. Spamming it on a dervish with high mysticism is even sexier. It's nice to see the yellow, but it's just so ridiculously good now that I couldn't ever part with it. I will never, ever take this or splinter weapon off my bar. They're just too good.

I'm really, really unsure on spirit rift. Like you said, in GWEN it just doesn't do that much through armor, and thanks to splinter mobs die really quickly anyway. Definitely doesn't feel worth the 10e and a slot, but not much else fits there well.

Looking at your bar, I don't really see the point of those spirits, especially when GoLE could fit there too.

I like nightmare weapon, but it's never really been quite the "money" spell I'd like it to be.

How about this?

[skill]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]spirit rift[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]nightmare weapon[/skill][skill]weapon of remedy[/skill][skill]protective was kaolai[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]

Skills are a little out of order, general idea is just putting all the really, really good rit skills on one bar, with the exception of warmonger's weapon since you can only have so many weapon spells.

BloodSong is just a turret that deals some very consistent hurt in protracted fights. I don't always drop it, but it's life-steal works great over-time. It really mounts up impressively especially on bosses. Life is also there for similar reasons. Protracted fights in pve always seems to be against enemies that just drain the teams hp as a whole quite efficiently (heroes and hench are stupid). Every time Life goes off, people are usually back to full hp. I like that.

I see you replaced it with Kaolai but I really don't like item spells, and the heal is just LoD lite at the end of the day. the 140 from Life even at silly half-radar range is pretty nice. The armour is cool, but I use a +5 focus and Ghost Forge of a Weapon bar

.

This build doesn't give me energy probs at all, so I have very little use for GoLE. Also since I use mostly 5 energy spells anyway, Essence Strike is far better for EM if I ever needed it.

Spirit Rift is your basic janitor spell. Cleans up the crap Splinter leaves behind. Nightmare is actually great for indirectly healing warriors while doing good offense.
WoR is never an issue as it's usually a personal reserve or for the team casters. I may use it on the physicals when Splinter/Nightmare wares off if things get hairy (Life I love ya) but it's a rare thing. I've never been a fan of Death Pact Signet. Gave me GvG (back in the day) and TA nightmares. It's pretty ok of course.

Warmonger's is great but this is PvE at the end of the day. I'd sooner things were dead than interrupted. Splinter is just too good on Rit primary. Besides I often run Power Drain or similar crap on the monks. Shame they're crap at understanding EM (Don't use it at full energy you moron...), but that and Zho in your team is all you need in that department.

Gwen is really a nice break from pvp ^_^.

jimmyboveto · Sep 10, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Looks nice, lately i've been messing around with a resto rit, but i'll have to give this a try. Nice break from the spirit builds you always see people playing nowadays, which are boring as hell.

Brian the Gladiator · Sep 26, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

[skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill][skill]Smite Hex[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Warmonger's Weapon[/skill][skill]Offering of Spirit[/skill][skill]Bloodsong[/skill][skill]Strength of Honor[/skill][skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill]

Attributes:
Channeling - 12+1+1
Smiting Prayers - 12
Spawning Power - 3+1 (I think that is the left overs???)

Also, feel free to sub out Warmonger's Weapon for Judge's Insight: [skill]Judge's Insight[/skill]
The reason why I use Warmonger's Weapon is because I use conjure warriors and dervishes when I splinter weapon, so I need them to be using elemental damage and not holy damage.

Ensign · Sep 27, 2007, 03:39 AM // 03:39

After Splinter Weapon + Ancestor's Rage (with Death Pact Signet of course), nothing else you take is all that attractive. Most of the Restoration stuff really isn't what you want in PvE; if you want to spec it I think you go Weapon of Warding (Shadow) / Protective Pot / Pure Pot, with a spot heal maybe. It's not like PvP at all where you need the fast defensive stuff for splits, you have Monks to do the heavy lifting.

I like going two ways with Rits. If you're not averse to diving into the secondary, put 12 in Smiting for Smite Hex and Smite Condition; Offering of Spirit will power out the JI or Strength of Honor depending on your physicals. If you don't have a secondary the elite I gravitate to is Expel Hexes.

Spirit Rift is too much work, it's not good enough to make me run something that I have to aim every time I want to use it. I can put all of my energy into Splinter and Ancestors anyway.

Also if you're doing any dungeon running I'd definitely spend the slot on Light of Deldrimor.

neo the tyrant · Sep 27, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

ugh, i find it nice =D

Draginvry · Oct 14, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

neither of which are all that attractive.

Weapon of Warding can be usefull, but I don't really care for it myself. And the only time I remember using Blind Was Mingson was on my assassin so I can get into large groups to kill stuff without taking damage. But unless your build is designed to kill at least one monster in under seven seconds, there are a lot more usefull skills to bring along than Blind Was Mingson.

I've never used Blind Was Mingson on a Rit primary.

Batou of Nine · Oct 14, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

So I've been playing around with pretty much the same build for a while now in GWEN, and I've pretty much hit the wall on how much I can refine it. So... tear this to pieces and make it better

.

[skill]spirit rift[/skill][skill]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]weapon of shadow[/skill][skill]recovery[/skill][skill]recuperation[/skill][skill]offering of spirit[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]

I'm usually running with Koss as triple chop warrior and Melonni as reaper's sweep dervish, so the splinter weapon is exclusively for them.

Variants:
-Swap weapon of shadow for warmongers weapon if interrupts are a must. I usually bring along the interrupt henchie or a BHA ranger, so this is often overkill.
-Swap weapon of shadow for pure was li ming, and recovery for [skill]life[/skill], giving more "on demand" condition removal

Issues:
-Weapon of shadow is kinda weak for melee shutdown, but I still need some area of effect physical shutdown spell. The only other options I see are [skill]weapon of warding[/skill] and [skill]blind was mingson[/skill], neither of which are all that attractive.
-Spirit rift is great damage - when it hits. Everything dies so fast that it usually ends up going off and hitting nothing. Not sure what else to put here, though.
-No super-fun PvE only skills

I use many variations of a Channeling build, with OoS... Here is one i use similar to yours, but tweaked a bit::

[skill]spirit rift[/skill][skill]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]essence strike[/skill][skill]Ghostly Haste[/skill][skill]Life[/skill][skill]offering of spirit[/skill][skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill]

I know i only have 3 direct damage spells now, but with a descent amount of points in Spawning, you can keep Ghostly Haste up about 85% of the time, meaning you can spam Spirit Rift, Ancestor's Rage, and Essence Strike 25% faster...

Any other under 10 second recharge dmg spell is usable in place of Ancestors, Splinter Weapon and Essence. And the recharge on Life is now 25% faster, just in case it gets killed before its natural death. Just keep up a Life spirit as much as possible (pre-battle setup too), and you will consistently have the 25% faster recharge bonus from Ghostly, as well as a support heal in pressure situations, all the while spamming Rift all over the place. Real fun having multiple Rifts pop up all over the place (target switching ftw!).

Try it out, its not uber, but its fun and effective!

cheers.

Brood_Star · Oct 15, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

that looks uber to me. O_O

i'd just drop the resto line and add in bloodsong

Dr Strangelove · Oct 15, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

been a while since I posted here...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brood_Star

that looks uber to me. O_O

i'd just drop the resto line and add in bloodsong

In my mind the whole point of running a rit is the piles of utility you can bring. If you spec 100% channeling, you're nothing but a half-assed elementalist. I selected the first three skills on that bar ([skill]spirit rift[/skill][skill]ancestors' rage[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill]) first because they actually do something useful, and second because I can spend 100% of my time on them, leaving the rest of the bar open for toys.

On batou's build-

The only things on that bar particulary limited by recharge time are ancestor's rage and essence strike. Everything else is really limited by cast time, and will usually be recharged before you can get around to using it. I'd suggest going two ways with it.

First, you could bring [skill]weapon of quickening[/skill] to turbocharge rift, rage, and essence strike. I tried it out briefly after the exhaustion nerf a while back, it worked ok, and was actually pretty good in a party full of eles since you can buff them up too. The downside is that you're speccing communing, and the only utility of note in there is [skill]dulled weapon[/skill] (actually a pretty good spell).

Second, you could drop ghostly haste for arcane echo, and then use that to squeeze out more rages. I'm unsure if you'd need essence strike there, I tend to be bad at figuring out the energy burden of builds until I run them.

On my own build, I cut out the second spirit, and now just take recovery, life, or recuperation depending on the area. It makes everything move a lot faster, and makes energy a little easier to manage. That slot, and the slot for weapon of shadow are extremely variable. I've run everything from wards to resto heals to PvE skills there. I've actually tossed splinter weapon for great dwarf weapon a few times too, when mobs just weren't big enough to require it, e.g. in a FoW clearance run.

As for Ensign's smiting stuff-

I screwed around with it and was vastly underwhelmed. Strength of honor is the big ticket skill there, but it just doesn't have enough of a "money" effect that I'm comfortable using half my att points and skillbar for it. PvE warriors spamming dslash and the like already do 50+ damage per hit, an extra 13 just doesn't do anything gamebreaking.

As a final thing in this rambling post from hell, I've heard flag runner rits are getting some attention in GvG. I'd be curious what they're running, if anyone knows.

Batou of Nine · Oct 15, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brood_Star

that looks uber to me. O_O

i'd just drop the resto line and add in bloodsong

Thx,

i wouldn't drop Life, it is in the bar for a reason; having a spirit that has low recharge, coupled with 33% faster recharge makes it a spirit you can constantly keep up, with the bonus being the healing it gives. Having a spirit up at all times is fairly essential for my build, and Shadowsong/Bloodsong with its 45 sec recharge has more risk of too much downtime...

@ Dr Strangelove.
You kind of counter your own points... You say there really isnt anything limited by recharge, but then you suggest using the ELITE slot for a skill that does exactly what my build already included. huh?

Secondly, Ghostly Haste is NOT in there because of any long recharge hindrance. That skill is there to facilitate efficiency in the build usage. By themselves, even with rather short recharges, you still have few second down times. With my setup you have nearly zero down time, and can literally spam the skills endlessly.

Additionally, i chose to use OoS because of its zero drawback energy regain and fast recharge. Faster with Ghostly Haste. Pushing OoS to about a 8-10 second recharge means your energy regain can occur that much faster, and is on demand. If you actually try the build and use it correctly you realize that each skill compliments eachother...

Ghostly Haste facilitates nuking spam, facilitates your energy management demand, facilitates your spirit spam (which additionally helps your bonus heal)...

OoS is a very basic and quickly on demand energy management.

Life, is your very spammable spirit allowing the best usage of OoS, allowing the use of Ghostly Haste, and gives a bonus heal of around 100hp to the party.

The nuking foundation is Spirit Rift and Essence Strike, made highly spammable and is easily manageable thru drawn out battles.

Additional nukes only make it better...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Second, you could drop ghostly haste for arcane echo, and then use that to squeeze out more rages. I'm unsure if you'd need essence strike there, I tend to be bad at figuring out the energy burden of builds until I run them.

That would make the build highly highly inefficient. Using Arcane Echo + Ancestors: 5-6 seconds and 35 energy later you can get 2 Ancestor Rages off, or using my build (Ghostly + Ancestors): 6 seconds and 30 energy (easily recovered from OoS) 2 Ancestors Rage also achieved (via ghostly haste). In the end, you can spam Rift so often in my build that any other AoE isn't essential, i usually just bring other high dmg single target nukes, or utility nukes...

You may want to take your own advice to heart, and try my build before you critique

. You yourself admit you can't really gauge good energy management... By no means am i calling my build perfect, but as it stands, it is a build that is very cohesive where each skill (aside from the 2 optional nukes) has a very specific role/purpose in making the build efficient.

This build with a few defense modifications, is great in HM too. anyway, its nice to discuss builds for an under appreciated class...

I wanna see more builds too!

cheers!

Brood_Star · Oct 16, 2007, 11:09 PM // 23:09

bloodsong has 30 sec recharge. 10 more.

still, if i were to keep the resto line i'd throw in MBaS or Spirit Light somewhere

Master Ketsu · Oct 16, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

I would prefer bringing [skill]Flesh of my flesh[/skill] instead of [skill]Death pact signet[/skill] when in comes to PvE IMO. Nothings worse then ressing Joe Wammo and then Watching him leeroy into a mob 2 spirit ranges away from the nearest monk....getting you both killed.

Beyond that Id say your build has decent utility. Really anything that makes sense can have its place in PvE.

AlienFromBeyond · Oct 16, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Well, we do HM most of the time, and there the dieing side-effect of DP Signet is in fact a benefit, as you don't get any DP if you die as a result of it. In addition, it is the fastest res in the game, making it a great combat res.

Ensign · Oct 17, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

If you spec 100% channeling, you're nothing but a half-assed elementalist.

Elementalists bring utility too. 100% channeling Rits are half-assed versions of *bad* Elementalists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

On my own build, I cut out the second spirit, and now just take recovery, life, or recuperation depending on the area.

Why do you take a spirit at all? Are any of those worth the skill slot they demand? Recovery is good in a few zones; Life is ok in easy mode but really isn't anything special.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

That slot, and the slot for weapon of shadow are extremely variable.

I'd think you had more variable slots than that. Splinter / Ancestors / Deathpact are the only must-runs; Offering is clearly the best PvE elite if you don't want to run Expel, and the only really worthwhile Resto stuff is Weapon of Shadow and Protective Was Kaolai. The rest is noise, I'd be packing my bar with weird stuff from my secondary and PvE skills (Ebon Vanguard Battle Standards anyone?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I screwed around with it and was vastly underwhelmed. Strength of honor is the big ticket skill there, but it just doesn't have enough of a "money" effect that I'm comfortable using half my att points and skillbar for it. PvE warriors spamming dslash and the like already do 50+ damage per hit, an extra 13 just doesn't do anything gamebreaking.

You'd only want to consider the smiting stuff if you don't think the Restoration skills are worthwhile. If it doesn't you have half your attribute points and half your skillbar free to put whatever you want in (since you're just Splinter / Ancestor's / Deathpact / Offering).

You are underestimating the value of Strength of Honor there; and extra 13 per hit, even if your guys are hitting for 50 normally, is another half a Warrior worth of damage passively; it's also armor ignoring damage that's even better against bosses. The smites are similarly armor ignoring, substantial AoEs; no they're not spammable but you don't need them to be since Splinter / Ancestors are being spammed so often.

Again I wouldn't bother unless decided Restoration wasn't that good, and it isn't really gamebreaking stuff, but it's all strong skills that make good use of energy without a signficant time requirement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

As a final thing in this rambling post from hell, I've heard flag runner rits are getting some attention in GvG. I'd be curious what they're running, if anyone knows.

Weapon of Remedy / Weapon of Warding / Wielder's Boon / Ancestor's Rage /Splinter Weapon / Dash / Dark Escape.

Some people drop the /Assassin stuff for Pious Haste. You'll see Warmonger's Weapon or Weapon of Shadow added on occasion as well.

Dr Strangelove · Oct 18, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Why do you take a spirit at all? Are any of those worth the skill slot they demand? Recovery is good in a few zones; Life is ok in easy mode but really isn't anything special.

Not saccing for offering seems like a good idea, and it's also a convenient anchor for spirit light if I'm bringing that. When I'm running ward bitch, I usually bring bloodsong since I'm not speccing restoration, but honestly, anything the spirit does is just a pleasant side effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I'd think you had more variable slots than that. Splinter / Ancestors / Deathpact are the only must-runs; Offering is clearly the best PvE elite if you don't want to run Expel, and the only really worthwhile Resto stuff is Weapon of Shadow and Protective Was Kaolai. The rest is noise, I'd be packing my bar with weird stuff from my secondary and PvE skills (Ebon Vanguard Battle Standards anyone?)

Spirit rift comes and goes, usually for assassin summon or pain inverter. (Splinter weapon + ancestor's rage on the summoned sin is hilarious).

The spirit slot seems kinda stuck that way with offering. if I'm running an alternate elite, that slot turns into some other form of energy management anyway, like essence strike or GoLE.

As for resto, pure was li ming, weapon of warding, and spirit transfer are also pretty damned useful. Pure is especially sexy against condition spammers, it's extinguish on steroids.